Lameness

M: http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/metal-big-brother-day-1/

1. LOL @ vikernes vikernes. dummies!

2. this is one of the most pointless pieces of tripe MH have come up with so far

J: what the fuck!!!! >_O

M: i know, srsly, is there no end to the crap they come out with?

J: someone commented that it was full of win.
it just kinda distances me from people that claim to like metal but think all this stuff is cool. it's not, it's lame. these are the sort of "individuals" that claim to hate Big Brother as a rule, but a metal version? hey, that's okay, we don't mind.
yeah, fuck off!

M: it is full of LAME. people are full of talk, what they mean is that they'd love big brother if it was people they're interested in.

i'm torn between thinking that people who think everything should be in some way metal related are retards or just big metal fans and that's okay?

i.e. at first i was thinking that "ohh people who try and make everything metal or want everything to be metal are lame" YET - thats pretty much me and you. we play metal who is, we went to see razzle's grave, we want to go to festivals and have metal holidays, we dress...not normally, however you want to describe it (i look like a magician today!), we read books about metal, talk about metal, go to metal pubs - its our hobby and we're really into it. people who like golf wear golf clothes, go to golf bars and would like big brother if it was made up of golfers... :???

J: yeah, but we don't think, "oh, it's be cool to have a metal BB" or"Metal sports", or a "Metal Soap Opera" or anything like that.

M: yeah that is true. so is that where the line is drawn?

J: between us and them? we might like metal to a fanatic level, but we keep some order to it. these people take it overboard and do horseshit like a metal bb, guitar hero and take metal into the commercial stakes where it shouldn't be.

M: ahh. so is part of the reason why we like it because we enjoy it's non commercial status. and altho we complain there's no good metal anywhere - is it really just that as soon as something gets big we hate it...catch 22 etc. sunnnnnn being a perfect example.

J: i've always hated metal being in the mainstream. this is the issue i have with classic rock for going away from a specialist magazine to a regular mag to cater for the fact that people are now into rock music.
> it really just that as soon as something gets big we hate it...catch 22 etc. sunnnnnn being a perfect example.
this. i was gonna say what you said last night but forgot when we were talking about Southern Lord. sunn is a great example of a band i liked that i hate because they're got big in such a way. but maiden is big, and we love them, but it's the way it happens. bands now that get big start to sell themselves out.
you think of bands that have never gone mainstream still are cool, like seth and anal cunt.

M: thats a good point - the way they get big. riding on hipster coat tales and becoming people they're not....or building bigger and bigger effigies of eddie.... i like metal because its what i like - and it doesn't bother me that much if a band get really famous or not - but you're right, it would bother me if they changed so they could be famous or if they started to do things differently as a result of the fame. for one thing, they wouldn't be the band i liked anymore and also because it would show up their lack of integrity...

J: > or building bigger and bigger effigies of eddie....
eh :?
the thing with sunn is that they're still doing the same shit, metallica changed, maiden never (well, they got a new singer), motley never changed (see maiden), etc etc. so you kinda see the bands we still like opposed to the next band.

M: sunn getting famous is them doing gay interviews and posing for photoshoots and charging a million pounds to get into the same shows they were doing before they got big.

iron maiden getting famous is them building super awesome giant eddies and putting on a show that's actually worth £50 to get into. they didn't change, they remained the same band, just super rich and they used it to do awesome cool things and it just made their fans love them more.

metallica changed - i still don't believe they changed due to the fame, but without a doubt and whatever caused it they turned sucky.

It descends from there on into us being rude about Metallica: one of our favourite ways to pass the time.

But points well made (esp the ones by me obvz): what do you think divides us awesomely cool people from posers? Is there really anything between us? Metal has traditionally been populated by outcasts and rebels...but by seeking to define what is cool and what isn't, it seems we still yearn for some kind of validation. After rejecting one culture because we didn't fit in, we're creating the same sort of elitism in a place that was originally set away from that social hierarchy.

When I'm in a good mood - nice and peaceful - I like to think that Metal is music that doesn't care who you are or what you look like...but more often than not, that's just not the case and it never has been. From the very beginning "being cool" was a big deal.